tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post1881328354151994622..comments2024-03-21T10:21:03.387+00:00Comments on Bloody Big BATTLES Blog: Victory conditions in wargamesChrisBBBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-1230321780511495442015-11-24T08:20:33.168+00:002015-11-24T08:20:33.168+00:00Excellent comments, John. That's what I was gr...Excellent comments, John. That's what I was groping towards when I said "Possession of objectives at the end of a battle can serve as a simple proxy for the state of an army". But you have put it better and with more erudition. Thanks!ChrisBBBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-75582363402200673662015-11-23T23:35:02.422+00:002015-11-23T23:35:02.422+00:00Terrain objectives can conjure up shades of the &q...Terrain objectives can conjure up shades of the "scientific" maoeuvres that were fashionable before Napoleon blew them to smithereens. As Clausewitz said, the destruction of the enemy is the aim of war and that is normally achieved by battles. He didn't say it was best achieved by killing more than you lost. He said it was about imposing one's will on the enemy. That could be measured in trophies taken but particularly in compelling the enemy to quit the field. If terrain objectives are used in that sense, I feel they have a purpose in C19th wargames. If the Allies are evicted from Papelotte, La Haie Sainte, Hougoumont, they have been pretty much forced to give up the field. De Saxe pointed out that troops lose heart when what isn't meant to happen, happens: when the enemy gets over a parapet in one place, the whole line is lost, because the defending troops define themselves as beaten.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14141347610924015952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-26335781789358445212015-11-21T23:17:10.615+00:002015-11-21T23:17:10.615+00:00Thanks, Keith. Notwithstanding everything I said a...Thanks, Keith. Notwithstanding everything I said above, my (not very well informed) impression of Seven Years War warfare is that it is very much about whose line gives way first, so the break point approach is actually entirely appropriate; and your Honours of War rules are so clean and elegant that it is easy to implement. Having said that, I imagine there would still be plenty of historical SYW actions where including Objectives could be relevant and useful. If I've given you some ideas to help you do that, I'm more than happy.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />ChrisChrisBBBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-46930142521878449292015-11-20T14:56:18.891+00:002015-11-20T14:56:18.891+00:00Very thoughtful article Chris. Honours of War uses...Very thoughtful article Chris. Honours of War uses a very simple Army Points victory rule, but there is room to add in objectives to give the game some shape. You have convinced me that a bit more attention to the objectives concept may make for more interesting scenarios. I'll be looking into it.<br /><br />All the best, Keith.Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-32716878479765259172015-10-28T13:14:24.521+00:002015-10-28T13:14:24.521+00:00Hello Bob mate, have you been Googling yourself ag...Hello Bob mate, have you been Googling yourself again? ;-)<br />Very good point, thanks for the comment.<br /><br />ChrisChrisBBBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-39939143338233272442015-10-28T12:42:43.636+00:002015-10-28T12:42:43.636+00:00The above is a very fine essay, not least because ...The above is a very fine essay, not least because I get a mention<br /><br />One point to add:<br /><br />Its very important in scenario design to be clear what "taking" an objective actually means. For example you might chose clear all enemy from within 6" of Rocherath (brownie points for knowing the battle). Where are you measuring from, the edge of the town or the middle. Do stands have to be touching the 6" or wholly within? If you are setting up a scenario for a tight finish than such details can make a difference and having them defined can prevent arguments<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />BobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-85967907119271033742015-09-13T17:33:34.915+01:002015-09-13T17:33:34.915+01:00Thanks to all those who have commented. In case yo...Thanks to all those who have commented. In case you haven't seen it, there's been some good discussion about this on The Miniatures Page (TMP):<br />http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=396954ChrisBBBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-21803489635673376542015-09-12T08:47:35.752+01:002015-09-12T08:47:35.752+01:00Exactly!Exactly!ChrisBBBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-9048821329087257092015-09-12T08:46:30.536+01:002015-09-12T08:46:30.536+01:00Thanks, Adam, good point. I'm sure there are o...Thanks, Adam, good point. I'm sure there are other such instances. I remember Age of Rifles, had some fun with that in years gone by.ChrisBBBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-46762257420611609102015-09-12T08:43:06.469+01:002015-09-12T08:43:06.469+01:00Glad you got something out of it, and thanks for c...Glad you got something out of it, and thanks for commenting. What sort of very large games do you do? (I'd look for your posts on TMP but it's having its daily shutdown just now.)ChrisBBBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522334377353504659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-56986936977782817472015-09-12T05:16:19.428+01:002015-09-12T05:16:19.428+01:00Always look for the vital ground, the piece of ter...Always look for the vital ground, the piece of terrain that forces your opponent to dance to your drum...Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04548342184401988758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-4132369647116392532015-09-11T18:38:42.696+01:002015-09-11T18:38:42.696+01:00Here's one that used to happen in an old compu...Here's one that used to happen in an old computer game Age of Rifles. Sometimes a position because important because men fight for it rather than the other way around. It might have a value at the start of the game but that value to both sides goes up as men fight and die to take or hold it. Verdun was always worth fighting fro but it became more so as the fight progressed and it became symbolic of the French will to fight on. AdamC1776https://www.blogger.com/profile/02279351293614637287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2039878527317652203.post-27646003327068049932015-09-11T16:55:17.628+01:002015-09-11T16:55:17.628+01:00Sorry to post as anonymous, but I don't do soc...Sorry to post as anonymous, but I don't do social media etc and I'm an IT ignoramus. <br />Interesting article and it'll make me think harder about objectives for future games - we like very large games too.<br />thathistorybloke@btinternet.com ..... also known as 'uglyfatbloke' on TMP> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com